im with jobi.
ive just visited another site and ng2gb is on there posting umpteen photos of alba and having a laugh,so no need to worry about him filling time killing him self with newcy and fags...sorry cigs.
lets knock talk of boycotting this great site on the head,and try to get on with the job in hand which is to help people deal with the affliction of mpb.

good luck ng2.

Im also against a boycott because for one Im my own man and two Im here to help guys not tear down Pat. Hes got a good thing going for us for free and of course himself for profit.
Saying that I do understand why people might want to boycott since they feel like they should "heard" since they have devoted alot of free time to help patients dreams come true and Pats site to boom.
Should Pat do ALL this for free ,hell no I wouldnt.I hope the man is being showered with money. We all post for free out of the kindness of ourhearts ,but we cant always kiss ass. Im always hearing people say they will call a spade a spade, but it never happens .When the heat comes on they bow down like little servants.
That being said I recieved a long detailed email from NGTGB that was well typed .No smiley faces no Alba just a general hurt for what he feels as being blackballed. The man truly felt that this was his home .
If I posted his email you would see a very intelligent guy that is very sad that he was given the boot for his opinions.
When I put myself in Pats positon I can understand why he wouldnt want a guy to state his opinion on why he would only go to 3 doctors on here.
Pat has to not only sift through good and the bad but he also has to keep ALL the deserving doctors happy.
Besides helping all of us from being butchered Pat also has to make a living but balances our needs with his pretty damn good
If our posting helps keep people go to the deserving doctors on here and in return fills Pats heap up enough to where he can travel to Mexico and find that one doc who is worthy ,then its all worth it
As we all probably do there are posters who when I see their name I just skip right over because I know their true agenda. NGTGB agenda was to try to help people in two ways . Make them laugh and give good advice.
I do believe the coalition is the majority of the great docs out there ,but I would be curious how many people feels they are all on the same level. Would you be willing to write all their names down put them in a hat and choose whatever doctors name came out.
I believe EVERY coalition doctor should have to not only perform ultra fine surgery when Pat comes but post pictues evry month of their work ,whether its immediate postop or grown out.
That way when a person like NGTGB says I would only feel safe with H@W ,Shapiro,or Feller people direct them to a host of others producing the same superior results. Without that happening I can only go by what I see ,not by Pats feelings about the invisible doctors
NGTGB just wanted me to say goodbye to all of you ,even the guys the few that wanted him gone.
Lets get back to what this forum is all about and that is keeping people from the hacks and the hairmills .

quote:

I do believe the coalition is the majority of the great docs out there ,but I would be curious how many people feels they are all on the same level. Would you be willing to write all their names down put them in a hat and choose whatever doctors name came out.

No I wouldn't. I think the Coalition recommendation is a worthy collection and starting point for further research to decide where to go, however I wouldn't trust my surgery with just one sources opinion. That is why I give just as much weight, or more, to the patients feedback, photos, blog stories, personal contact with actual patients etc..

I commend this site for its strict standards in selecting a doctor for Coalition recommendation and actually hold them to it over time to retain this status, for the most part I would say one would be in good hands with any of them.

That said, however, each patient has individual needs/goals so a selection from a Coalition Doctor list would understandably be narrowed based on this personal criteria. Although all may be fine surgeons, only a few may be a better choice for your needs.

There is one doctor in the Coalition you couldn't pay me to go. From personal experience I find him unethical and untruthful and not to have the patients best interest as priority. Which makes me wonder about these aspects of other Coalition Doctors. Some things can not be found out until after the fact.

From my perspective, the Coalition is just a recommendation. The source of this recommendation ( hairlosslearningcenter.org ) is reputable and knowledgeable and can be trusted to provide accurate info, so the recommendation carries sufficient weight.

However, to me, a recommendation is just a starting point to begin further research and not to be taken as definitive advice.

[EDIT ADDED]
I have to add, so this post isn't taken the wrong way. I did use a Coalition doctor for my second surgery and am pleased with the results so far.

Rambler,

If you feel that one of the Coalition doctors is deficient, I encourage you to provide their name and your reasoning for why you think they are unethical and or deficient.

To not provide their name is not fair to the other Coalition members who are then left in question.

I take input from the patient community very seriously. If I find that I agree with you, this doctor would be out of the group in a click.

Pat

Pat,

You can refer to my first post on this forum. Unfortunately, although I tried, his was never resolved and due to the circumstances stated in that thread it is a dead end to discuss on the forum, neither do I want to really. After that thread I tried to come to a fair resolve with the doctor but received less than an honest and in my opinion ethical response.

Rambler,

Thank you for providing me with more details. According to your first post your issue stems from a surgery you had ten years ago with Dr. Andrews, who never has been a member of the Coalition or recommended on this site.

However, he was apparently working for NHI ten years ago, which is owned by Dr. Rassman who is a member of the Coalition. So I can understand why years later you went back to NHI to get your results corrected/improved.

Apparently, Dr. Rassman did offer to provide you with a limited amount of free grafts to enhance your existing hair transplants. However, you feel that you this response was not adequately honest or ethical.

I would be happy to contact Dr. Rassman to discuss this issue. Please send me an email with your contact info so that he can pull the proper files. I hope that I will be able to resolve this issue for you.

Best wishes, Pat

I appreciate both the supportive comments and the constructive criticism of those who have posted their opinions on this issue, without advocating the disruption of this forum community.

However, a small handful of forum members have attempted to disrupt this forum community by lobbying others to boycott this community.

While these members have been free in the past to express their criticisms on this forum, they have now gone beyond criticism and have been actively using this forum to undermine it.

While tolerance of all view points and opinions has been characteristic of this forum over the years, I will not tolerate members using their forum privileges to disrupt it.

Just as we expect physicians to be accountable for their actions, it is fair to expect the same of forum members. I have removed the posting privileges of less than a handful of members who were actively working to undermine this community.

I believe that a discussion forum is much like a garden that needs to be cultivated, fertilized and occasionally weeded to stay healthy.

Thank you for understanding my need to take this action.

Onwards and Upwards, Pat

quote:

Apparently, Dr. Rassman did offer to provide you with a limited amount of free grafts to enhance your existing hair transplants. However, you feel that you this response was not adequately honest or ethical.

The offer of the free grafts is not what I find dishonest or unethical about Dr. Rassman. It is what occurred on the phone with him afterwards from which I derive this conclusion.

I will send you my contact info to see if you get better results.

Pat,

Are you saying that you banned other posters as well?

I certainly don't believe that is the right step if true.

The purpose of the forum is to provide objective advice for people losing their hair.

It is not to resolve issues of specific instances with doctors.

All of these issues should be taken offline.

My reasoning is this, how do you know who is right and who is wrong.. What is fair?

One crazy patient can damage a doctor because of unrealistic expectations..

Hi all!
Im a long time lurker here but first time poster.

Im posting because of these recent arguments in the forum.

I liked this forum because it was the only place I trusted to get objective advice. But with all of this going on I have my doubts.

mrjobi, what do you mean that this is not a place to resolve issues of specific instances with doctors?

so what if any patients have a problem with a doctor then they can't discuss it here?

I THOUGHT that was what this forum was for?
Is it only a place where people can sing songs of praise?

"how do you know who is right or wrong"

well you cant know if those who are wronged are denyied a voice!

I don't get this!

Im seriously confused!
Can you guys reaffirm my trust in all this?

How do you know WHO TO TRUST if you take all bad instances against a doc OFF LINE!?!??!?!??!

How do you know who is right or wrong if you deny those who are wronged a voice?

And how do you call any patient who has a problem against a doc "CRAZY"??????????


I TRUSTED THIS FORUM BUT NOW I HAVE MY DOUBTS...

CAN YOU GUYS TELL ME HOW THIS MAKES ANY SENSE?

oh yeah, I hope no one boycotts on here because even though this is all strange lately, it is a great place to be able to express your opinions and share your hair loss concerns!!!

THANKS EVERYBODY!!!!

I agree with what MrJobi said about the forum being a place to provide objective advice for people losing their hair and "not" for resolving a specific issue with a doctor.

I think any patients concern with their doctor should first attempt resolution with the doctor. Anyone who runs a business would prefer an opportunity to resolve an issue in private "before" being sandbagged in the "press".

After reading the last few threads about Dr Epstein I actually felt sorry for the guy. His reputation was being assaulted with inuendo, some speculation and a lot of "onesided" criticism. If the doctors had to spend all their time on here looking for criticism to defend against, they would have no time for transplants. Honestly, I don't think heart surgeons get held to the same standard. Cripes, how many of their patients have poor outcomes. I won't even broach obstetrics.

If a legitimate complaint isn't resolved, I am pretty sure that Pat would look into it and take action if required.

I'm not saying we can't discuss our concerns about hairloss and our experiences good or bad, but it shouldn't decend into the public "stoning" that seems to happen when a doctor issue gets discussed on here, before even trying a serious and fair attempt at resolution one on one.

Don't mean to offend anyone but that's how I've been seeing things on here lately.

I still feel the same and appreciate feedback..

This site is to find out about HT's and of course general feedback from people about their experience..

It, in my opinion is not for resolving specific instances with specific details, going back and forth.. This needs to be dealt with in a private manner , not in public..

It is none of my or anyone elses business about what took place, how, and the he said, she said. This is why we have telephones, email, and of course courts if needed..

If you had poor results, of course we want to know but again, try to resolve it FIRST in a private matter. To argue back in forth is pointless.

I agree mostly with what MrJobi said however, patient members who express their concerns with our physicians, though it is still better for them to contact the clinic first, if no resolution can be made, Pat and I do work toward helping find a resolution. Clearly we can't arbitrate every single event (who called or who didn't call who, etc). But we can ensure our physician is treating the patients fairly - which is one of the powers of this forum and selecting one of our physicians who are held to a higher level of accountability and patient care.

It is true however, that most of these things should be resolved privately if possible first.

Best wishes,

Falc

In simple terms

Share experiences - YES

Resolve specific issues - NO

I want to hear more info not people arguing with doctors about results or he said she said.

I agree that discussion over "who did or didn't call who" is something ridiculous to argue about online.

But what Pat and I are concerned about is the outcome of the result at maturation and whether or not the doctor was responsive to the patients needs overall.

Falc

People keep dismissing the fact that its was 3 of his patients complaining . Its ok to feel sorry for him but what about them ? Nothing has been resolved as of yet. This is why these 3 posters will probably never post again on here because some make them feel like they are nuts for questioning their OWN doctor.
3 patients within 3 months of each other and all over or at 6 months is something that NEEDED to be called to attention.
Why do you think Falc and I believe Pat were in contact with the doc over this? They saw what most of us saw,something abnormal
Whether some think its premature or not if it was you and you were reading about 2 other posters from the same doctor having the same issues with you would want support and others to try and help you if the doctor wasnt at the time. I know for a fact TTDS is happy this got out and something got accomplished.
Doctors dont have to spend anytime on here ,thats what Jotronic Bspot Janna Spex and a host of others are here for That what also makes Dr Feller and a few others even more special. Pat barely comes on thats why he needed Falc. It is good to see Aaron on here now.

On last comment .The best thing about this site is that if posters are out of line they will be called out on it .If doctors provide lousy ANYTHING ,they will be called out by the hand that feeds them.

quote:

One crazy patient can damage a doctor because of unrealistic expectations..

One crazy doctor can damage a patient with realistic expectations.
I can name numerous instances where the patients didnt feel they got what they deserved offline but after coming on here and posting they were magically attended too.