Hi Everyone,

A question I forgot to put up in my last post. Im sure alot of us work out/lift weights etc, I was wondering what effect this would have on hairloss. What I do know is that when you workout and are trying to increase your muscle mass your body produces more testosterone to aid this process, my guess is that allows more to be converted to the bad stuff (couldnt remember the name.. hang on (i looked on my propecia box) dihydrotestosterone DHT). So if more is available more will be converted?

Im not sure of the answer... does anyone know?

qvarnis

qvarnis,

This question has been raised a number of times, but to tell you the truth, I do not think anyone can completely answer it. The truth is that the body is such a highly complex organism that it is infinitely difficult to predict just what one action may cause in the way of reactions form every part of the body on some molecular level.

However, I do know that there is no conclusive proof that raised testosterone levels in the body from exercising will, in fact produce more DHT. It seems like this would be the logical case, but I am sure it has not been proven. Also, when we ask ourselves this question, there are many variables that we have to take into consideration: such as what accelerated positive effects does the increased metabolism from exercise give us? There is proof that exercise promotes the body to raise Serotonin levels. Serotonin, basically, is what keeps our moods on an even keel, so to speak; a mood elevator, if you will.

Now, since we know that working out has the ability to make the body release this chemical, can we not assume that it has the effect of nudging the body to release others? Now, you're probably saying "YES, dummy! I'm talking about DHT, here!!!", but hear me out (keep in mind that I am just about the furthest thing from a physician, so this is definitely NOT medical advice).

Testosterone is a hormone that is broken down by the Type I and Type II forms of the enzyme 5 alpha-reductase into DHT. DHT is a relatively unstable metabolite of testosterone. Because it is so unstable, it cannot last long. For it to have effect on the hair follicles, it has to be created somewhere in that same neighborhood.

Now, in order for DHT to be effective, they need to "attach" to the cell of the hair follicle to wreak its havoc. This is done in such away that they fit into the receptor sites of the cells. I believe that Finasteride works in such away that it inhibits the DHT from entering the receptor sites by way of competition (hence, the term "competitive inhibitors").

Now, your body also has what is called "feedback inhibition" which is a mechanism in which your cells will actually tell itself to stop receiving the substrates into the enzymes by monitoring the amount of end product it produces. Now, that is a very basic description of what goes on, but you get the idea.

My thinking is that there is something in the way of either feedback inhibition or competitive inhibition that the body produces from exercise that slows the onslaught of DHT somehow. Whether it gives the body some indication to release additional inhibitors or enables the receptors to be more sensitive to feedback inhibition somehow is beyond me. I do know that there have been studies that show that men who do substantial amounts of aerobic activity can lower their DHT levels. Of course, that may simply be from simply lowering their testosterone levels, too. I will have to get back to you on that if I ever run across that study.

So, in all of that "circle talk" I came to one conclusion: I don't know. However, I hope that it gave you some clearer indication of how the system works and what goes where and why and how. I would really like for a physician to jump in here and either smack my hand as if to say "no, no, no...you have it all wrong. HERE is how it is..." or to simply expand on what I said. I have trouble putting a picture in my head into words sometimes.

All of that fluff aside, ask yourself this: even if regular exercise increased testosterone levels, and thus, DHT levels to a point to where they could wreak a little more havoc on your hair follicles, would you want to be a balding guy that is in shape or a slightly less bald guy that is out of shape? Which is better? Yes, we need to do everything we can to maintain our scalp population but there comes a time (like this) where the pros of exercise will FAR outweigh the cons.

-Robert

Robert,

Cheers for that, I suspected there would not be a simple answer for that question, the info you provided definitly makes sense though. Your final point on the benefits of excercise is very important and I agree completly.

In between posting that question (ie today) I came across an article in a workout/training magazine that spoke about guys on anabolic steroids and how studies have shown an increase in chance of the balding process speeding up as a side effect. Which kind of makes sense, unfortunatly there was no mention of the effect of non steroid/normal workout effect on test levels of increase in chance of hairloss.

Slightly off the topic but a question I wanted to ask. Personally I only wash my hair once a week (a bit gross I know but it stays pretty clean). Now they say you are meant to lose 50-100 hairs a day. I reakon when I wash it I maybe lose 100 - 150 hairs (yes ive tried counting and its somewhere around that figure) and maybe (that I caount) 10 a day (from the top).

How often is it recommended to wash your hair?

Do you think this is a positive or negative, ie would washing more often build more strength into the hair etc?

Bizzare question I know but something I was curious about.

Cheers

qvarnis

Qvarnis,

Yes, there is definitely a link between guys playing around with steroids and then losing their hair. That is just one of the many health drawbacks from that junk. I won't even go into tissue, ligament, and liver damage.

I work out quite regularly. I also swap up my workout programs very often as to keep my muscles guessing so they don't get complacent. This does make for a boost in testosterone, but I feel that this boost and it's negative effects on healthy hair are negligent at best. Besides, like you and I both agree, I would much rather be a bald guy that is in shape than a slightly less bald guy that is either too fat to enjoy it or too weak to enjoy it properly. That is just my opinion, though.

As for washing your hair, I would think that what you are washing your hair with and how often you use that substance is more important than just the overall rate in which you wash.

What are you using as a shampoo? I can say nothing but good things about using Nizoral 2% 2 to 3 times a week. I think it has done great things for me. As well as this I use Neutrogena T-Gel 2 or 3 times a week. The rest of the time I simply use Nioxin Actives for the thickening properties of it. I haven't seen any conclusive proof that Nioxin works at any medicinal level, but I just like the way it makes my hair feel. I wash my hair at least once a day. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I use the Nizoral in the morning and the T-Gel after the gym. Every other day I just use the Nioxin. This has worked great for me. Come up with your own regimen or try that one, but I am willing to bet that washing your hair more than once a week will be beneficial.

-Robert

Robert,

Yeah your probably right I should wash it more, ive seen Nizoral mentioned on here before and have looked around in Australia for but have had no luck. Do you have any idea where I might order it online?

qvarnis

Increase in excercise does not scientifically cause hairloss. Now some of the supplements you take might tigger hailoss if it is a hormone precuser (like Andro ect).

qvarnis,

If you do a google search for "Nizoral 2%" you should be able to find a reputable online pharmacy that will ship it to you. I get mine locally, so I wouldn't have any idea where to look for the best prices and/or quality of product.

On the other hand, are you sure that it isn't carried in drugstores where you live? Nizoral isn't a prescription medication in Canada but it is in the U.S. I do not know about Australia. I would ask your local drugstore if they have it.

-Robert

I know this post is old, but thought I'd like to add my two cents here.

I exercise quite a bit, both weight trianing and stamina training, and should have something to add to this discussion, as someone that has followed sports education for 10 years.

What I can say is: All exercise increase the hormone levels in your body and not just lifting weights. Testosterone is what they call an anabolic hormone i.e(repairs muscule). Their are many anabolic hormones, so many that it's difficult for me to go into all of them. At any rate the HGH hormone is also anabolic and is known to have a rejuvenating effect on alot cellular activity, possibly including hair cells. So any rise in testosterone levels would I'm sure be counter acted by rising levels of other hormones.

When you exercise, you produce what is called a catabolic hormone which basiclly tears muscule down. My point here is that your anabolic hormones are usedup repairing the fibres that exercise has tore down. Anabolic seroids maily the testosterone variety, allow you to rebuild muscule tear down quicker than the average person, thus counter acting the bodys catabolic hormones and allowing quicker recoveries.

As most of use know, introducing steroids into the body artificially is a mugs game. The hormonal balance is exteremly complex, and not completey understood as far as I know, most certainly the effects of all the hormones haven't been exmained in relation to hair.

I hope this helps a little bit, but again it's probally not the complete answer.

Jack,

Thanks for the input and I am sure that you are on the right track (though I am not a physician so don't pin me to it).

I think the be-all-end-all is that excercise is productive on too many levels to be shunned totally even if it did have a detrimental effect on hair growth/count.

I have not seen or heard of any studies that have been conducted that point to the possibility that regular excercise (read: not including steroid use) has any detrimental effect on a person's hair.

-Robert

Frequency Of Washing: I wash my hair about every 5 days. I know it's common practice to wash it daily in North America, but I don't see the need to be honest, and there's the argument that by excessive washing you're removing natural oils from the hair.

( Brits and Aussies may have a distinct hair-washing culture from Yanks and Canucks )

I have heard that argument Kez, however there is little science to back up the claim that not washing the hair actually helps hair loss (I don't think that is actually what you are saying but I think it could have been misconstrued that way).

Besides, if you only wash your hair every 5 days then how are you getting in your 3x a week Nizoral 2% washings?

-Robert

Kez, I sure hope you are not showering or bathing every 5 days!!

HBT, don't forget Kez goes swimming every day with his pink fluffy cap so that's when he gets his body washed (and that's also why I don't go to the same swimming pool).

I've been washing my hair almost every day since I was a kid, and so has my father. My father's still got all his hair (he's 60), I've had 2 HTs already. So I really don't think it's a factor. Right now it depends on what I look like when I get up. If my hair is messy, I tend to wash it. If I'm fairly happy with my look, I just go out like that.

Also, I dye my hair in a much lighter shade now (ash blonde) to hide my white hair and reduce the contrast between hair and scalp (another trick to hide the fact that you're balding) and obviously the more you wash your hair, the less the colour lasts. I go to the barber every 6 weeks on average, and re-dye my hair immediately after (the roots start to show after 6 weeks, especially with MSM speeding up the growth). Works well so far.

If i apply dermatch then I will not wash it out that night as I have found that it looks better the next day. After the end of that next day, though, its time for a good scrub because my hair starts feeling like carpet.

-Robert

HairBeThere

quote:

Kez, I sure hope you are not showering or bathing every 5 days!!

Oh no. I usually wait for a couple of weeks before I go that far...

quote:

Originally posted by hairworthy:
HBT, don't forget Kez goes swimming every day with his pink fluffy cap.

Hey! You back from darkest Africa then?

Hi!
i`m 21 yrs of age. i was 98 kgs when i started exercising in may 2006! In the 3rd month of exercising i started loosing hair very very badly!

my parents immediately took me to a homoeopathic hair care clinic (Dr. Batras positive Health Clinic), a very renowned one in the country.

after 3 months of treatment i saw a minor reduction in the hair fall but it was far from satisfactory!

now 1 and a half yrs later after i`ve been continuously exercising and on the homoeopathic treatment, my hairline has receeded a lot!
i`ve lost 20 kgs though.

My hair now fall in a definite pattern:
the day i exercise mildly , mild hairfall occurs , the day i exercise very hard too much hair loss occurs andthe day i dont exercise at all very very few hair fall!

Such is the sensitivity of exercising on the hair loss! i initially thought that the hair fall started coz i didn`t take enough protein (read: protein supplements) to support my exercise regimen!

i`d also like to mention that although i still don`t take supplement, my diet is very good; full of natural proteins and iron!

6 months ago, in a bid to stop hair fall, i opted for a protein supplement. at that time my hairfall was almost stable!
within 10 days of taking that supplement my hairfall reoccured and that too very badly.
i discontinued it and told my homoeopathic doctor. he told me whey protein is very bad for hair loss.

in a gist, i want to continue exercising as i`m an aspiring model. But i get very discouraged seeing my hair fall n the hair line receding!
is there any hope???

i would try lighter exercises and see a dietician in case you are allergic to one of your supplements

Yes, you have hope -- but, you need to focus yourself on what will actually give you a fighting chance instead of squandering precious time and follicles.

You have, more likely than not, Male Pattern Baldness....don't worry about how much you are exercising, see a dermatologist ASAP, start research and inquire about the **proven** treatments to combat the dreaded beast. That is: The Big Three (Rogaine Foam 5%, Propecia, Nizoral).

Also, your "doctor", btw, sounds completely full of shit if he really said "whey protein is very bad for hair loss". I would be extremely cautious when dealing with him w/ regard to your hair situation.

qvarnis,

it seems to me that you are doing what EVERY guy does when he first notices he is losing his hair and that is become paranoid about what is causing it and what you can do to stop it. Its DHT due to genetic predisposition to baldness. There are always people on here saying all kinds of stuff like being unhealthy causes baldness, drinking, hats, blah, blah-blah...

And the same goes for cures: herbs, potions, heat lamps (i.e.laser), all kinds a shit. People think they can cure cancer with weeds and shit too. Their just fucking hippies plain and simple.

By the way, Robert gave you excellent advice: would you rather be a muscualr bald dude or an out of shape (possibly but really no chance) balding dude with a little more hair?

causes and cures:
DHT and being genetically predispositioned...
Minox, Propecia, ht...Period.

Wash your hair.