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I've gone the "ultimate" route of HTs, so I feel a bit disingenuous saying this now....but while baldness is always a detriment, it also creates the opportunity/challenge to rise to the occasion.

Pre-MPB, while I was never too socially awkward, I had little to no "game"; MPB killed me for a while, but it also caused me to have some newfound perspective that has allowed me to now live it up and not take things for granted and be so superficial.

Whether it's accomplishment, talent, humor, physique, confidence....women are drawn to this. Are women also drawn to superficial looks? Absolutely. How much is the question I think we're all speculating on. I'd argue that the "status quo" superficiality that surrounds our media-culture has prodded many guys (and girls) to obsess over the aesthetic, quite possibly at the expense of "accomplishment, talent...confidence".

But this doesn't necessarily mean that if presented with a legit dude who has these **rare** qualities but is bald he is fucked. Possibly, the rarity of this makes him an even greater bird.

It's tough, though, because it's so natural to compound the negative that baldness inherently is by obsessing over it (part of the aesthetic) at the expense of all else.

If I knew then what I know now, and if I could "do it all over again", I would probably buzz my head, take good care of my body so I feel solid, and see if I could make it work....augment my positive charachteristics and develop my talents, which we should all do regardless, but being afflicted by baldness gives us all the more reason, even though it's all the more difficult to initially do.

EDIT -- I do agree w/ bro that hair, followed by height, are the critical points that for better or worse women focalize around when gauging someone's aesthetics.

Bro - I know how you feel, and as I said, height and hair do matter. I started losing hair at age 17. I'm also below-average height, so I got the double-whammy. I could've given up, but I didn't.

Listen to Thanatopsis dude, there is a lot of wisdom and a good example in his post of how to overcome what you've inherited from mother nature. I've had 2 HTs now, so I'm not here to preach that hair "doesn't matter". But having your shit together, focusing on what you are passionate about in life, and enjoying yourself comes first.

I wish you well Bro-
-Vasilius

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bro, I know what you mean...Vasilius does too, for sure. IMO, part of this "dilemma" on looks is the twisting that gender roles have gone through in recent time. What I think you are feeling -- and what most of us feel too -- is a sort of backlash. There's been this dogma that charachterizes men as chauvenistic fools with a concern simply for the aesthetic and how big a girl's tits are in proportion to how bulbous her lips are; and that women are in turn self-conscious creatures that just want a "decent" guy to be freed from the shackles of superficiality.

The reality is that this is bullshit, which you clearly recognize. But it is Thunderdome out there -- I don't think we can easily say who is what and what what is.

Looks and image are also two different things but are part and parcel; like Vasilius said, image can be glorified by humor, accomplishment, etc. I would prolly say that women care more about *image* than men....looks I would say is a division of image.

The good thing is that even if we get screwed by looks, there are other components that comprise image. Just keep fighting.

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I hate to break it to you but most people are superficial. One of my very few close friends is just as bad as the girl that started this thread. My buddy, Mr. J, had no interest in this really nice young lady and strung her along, cancelled dates--the kind of thing that if someone did them to my daugher that I would shoot them for.

Anyhow, the young lady pops up a year later now with breast implants and Mr. J can't say enough great things about her. She went out with him, got a bunch of nice dinners and then dropped him. Sweet revenge.

And he really is a great guy, I have known him since the first day of med school in 1990. But the point is, most people are pretty superficial with regard to what attracts them to the opposite sex.

So as bad as whatever physical gripe you may have...hairloss, being skinny, having acne scars etc, some folks just aren't going to look at you. Just another unfair part of life. There are nice people out there who will like you for who you are, it just may be harder to initially find them.

Wow, I sound like a dad.

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

Speaking of which....my kids asked me 2 days ago how come I have so much more grey hair than all of the other dads......life isn't fair.

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bro,

Though I agree with you to some extent, I think you are generalizing too much.

There is a guy at my gym who is about 5 ft 7 and completely bald, but buff. He's married to one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.

But you are right - it's true that some women won't date a bald man. Just like some men won't date an overweight girl. We all have our likes and dislikes. But there are plenty of beautiful women out there that are attracted to a man's soul much more than their looks. Besides, women like when a man fights for them anyway. If you like a girl, don't be afraid to show her. If she's not into you, find another woman. And just maybe after you restore your hair the girl who wasn't interested will be kicking herself

Bill (Falc)

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bro - google "Neil Strauss".

I think Than had some great points! He's a sharp kid.

There are way to many variables to this to nail down any exact formulas. While there are the obvious physical features of men and women which most will agree upon which define the extreme spectrums of beautiful and ugly (or should I say visually challenged), there are way to many variables in between. Both Men and Women are superficial at some level and being attracted physically is usually important with both. With that said, I do think that men are typically more superficial with regards to JUST looks. If you look around anywhere you'll definitely see a greater percentage of Beautiful women with less attractive men then you would see of Gorgous men with less then attractive women!

I do like the screen name bro though, because it makes the forum sound like a high school/college party. Hey Bro, What up bro

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bro - Neil Strauss was NOT a celebrity when he wrote his book about dating supermodels. I've read "The Game". Have you? He became a celebrity BECAUSE of that book.

Yes, he was a talented writer who wrote for the New York Times and Rolling Stone. Yes, he was a ghost-writer for books by celebrities. But he was about as famous as you are. How many newspaper and magazine columnists would you recognize in a bar?

The fact that a 5'6" skinny bald guy wrote a best-selling book about dating supermodels brought the media attention that made him a celeb.

Building an exciting life, having a wide social circle and pursuing excellence makes you cool, interesting and confident. This, plus an understanding of women and attraction are what made Neil Strauss. Not money or fame.

quote:

Originally posted by bro:
Remember we are comparing regular guys here.

The point I'm trying to make is, simply this:

Don't be a "regular guy". You overcome short/bald by highlighting your best attributes and standing out in other areas.

This doesn't mean you should lie and make up a fake life of celebrities and rock stars. Even if that ever worked, what do you tell the girl once she gives you her number?

If you lead an exciting and fulfilling life, dress and groom yourself well, and don't send out insecure vibes by acting needy or like you don't belong there, you will stand out among the so-called "regular guys". You'll also have potential for successful long-term relationships with women.

But, if you have a dead-end job, never leave a 10-mile radius of your hometown, and sit in front of the TV or computer for 4 hours every night -- what the hell do you expect a woman to be interested in? Your DVD collection?

I'm a little worried about bro and some of the other members. This is the only reason I'm posting here. We're all here because we're trying to have and keep the best head of hair we can. But let's keep it in perspective.

Being short and bald isn't a life sentence of celibacy. Like I said, I'm 5'7" and started losing hair at age 17. By bro's philosophy I have no business whatsoever being happily married, much less to a gorgeous ex-cheerleader who graduated summa cum laude from university and makes six figures. I'm not ugly, but I would be by many womens' standard if I didn't take good care of myself. But I live a full, active life and don't live vicariously through the TV or Internet. I'm not saying I have a pile of 1st-edition philosophy books where a Tivo should be, but I get my ass moving toward my goals every day.

If you just want to wax pathetic about how cruel life is, that women like tall guys with thick luxurious hair and perfect teeth, go ahead. But that won't help anyone improve their situation. Ain't that what self-improvement is all about? Isn't hair restoration about improving your appearance and confidence?

Anyway, I wish bro and everyone else out there the best. I think I've said enough about this, hope some of it helps someone.


-Vasilius

I think Vasilius got it right on. Were you a biology or social science major by chance?

Thanks Chuck, but no. The psychology behind social interaction and sexuality is fascinating though, isn't it? :-)