It is manufacted by primordial performance, the same people who made dermacrine sustain (now called sustain alpha). Rules say not to post anything of commercial nature so I will not post a link.

Google up dermacrine and go to the site and look at the product called toco-8. This is not a snake oil company and they have a pretty good reputation at anabolicminds.com.

For those who like to look at specifics, here is a link to the patent information on the formula:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=AtF_AAAAEBAJ&dq=7211274

I know them well from anabolicminds, Matt. I am really interested to see what this is about.

Is it a topical like (most) of their other stuff?

Can you PM me alink? I can't find it on their website.

Thx

Matt,

Since you are not a spammer, you are welcome to post a link to the product in a single post. I only have a problem with blatant and obvious promotional content OR continual posting such as in a signature.

I have not looked into this yet however, I did recently do some research on and wrote an article on Vitamin E for hair loss.

I will take a look more into your findings soon I hope.

Best wishes,

Falc

It's pretty much the same exact thing you were talking about, falceros. I think your article nails down the facts perfectly and you reference the same US patent that I did in this post.

Either way I think a vitamin E complex would be a good addition to any hair loss regimen.

Anyways here's the link to the product with the description and whatnot, it is pretty detailed and in my opinion I would not see this as a snake oil company:

http://www.primordialperformance.com/toco.cfm

Also anabolicminds is a great fitness and supplement forum, I'm happy to see someone on here that is familiar with it.

Interesting, I think I'm going to order up a batch this weekend before my HT and give it a go....sounds like it could be a brother in arms to the Nizoral....also, seems just like a positive supplement to take hair-loss aside.

Hey Matt have you ordered from that website before? I am very interested about this product, it sounds to have many other health benefits besides hair. If you have ordered did you use a credit card?

Arrie, I can vouch for primordial performance. Always delivered and always quick to respond to emails.

(ps, my only "relationship" with them is that I've ordered from them)

Thanks Rick I am always hesitant to order anything online with a credit card. Thanks for your help.

Are you really Matt Skiba?

quote:

Originally posted by WeAreCured:
Are you really Matt Skiba?

Haha, no I'm only a fan of The Alkaline Trio. I'm sure the real Matt Skiba has a lot better things to do than hang out at "The Hair Transplant Network".

I just picked his name as my nick cause he's an inspiration to me because he can be awesome and still look good with a receding hairline.

It's claims sound bogus to me, but I hope that someone tries it and has a positive result.

Just read your report on Vitamin e Falc. Why the hell were only 19 people involved in that study? I hate that! They can't find 50 or 100 people to pay to be guinea pigs?

I think this is another far fetched product. In fact I have heard cautions about taking excessive Vit E. To be short, if you do not have a vitamin shortage in your body, I doubt it will help you .

This is no different than all other snake oils on the market. Claims, Claims, Claims. I do not see how this affects DHT and the MPB process.

Lastly , if it was that effective, I'm sure it would be front page news on the daily news as well as in the headlines at the major hairloss conventions for the coalition

I agree.

It's like the hippies who eat weeds and roots, then write books saying that 'nature has a cure for EVERY disease. the big drug companies do NOT want you to know about this, it has been covered up for years. eat weeds and roots and live'...


get a ht.
dont eat weeds and foilage.
kill animals, cook them, and eat their meat with pleasure.

quote:

Originally posted by Mrjb:
I think this is another far fetched product. In fact I have heard cautions about taking excessive Vit E. To be short, if you do not have a vitamin shortage in your body, I doubt it will help you .

This is no different than all other snake oils on the market. Claims, Claims, Claims. I do not see how this affects DHT and the MPB process.

Lastly , if it was that effective, I'm sure it would be front page news on the daily news as well as in the headlines at the major hairloss conventions for the coalition

Well what they say is that taking too much vitamin E can be bad since many commercial preparations only have one kind of vitamin E and this causes an imbalance among the different kind of vitamin E you have. The product has all the 8 different kinds of vitamin E in it so supposedly that's where the benefits come from.

The study was in a US Patent and I'm pretty sure you have to have some credibility for it to be patented.

As for the effectiveness of the product, I personally can not definitively say so. The reason for this is that the product has only been out for like a week but the effects are supposed to take at least 5 months. I'm sure once the product has been out for longer people will start reporting on whether it's bogus or not.

It is true that the product doesn't affect DHT, but I'm a firm believer that there's more to it than just DHT->Follicle->Baldness.

Also I personally can not get an HT since I am too young, and I can't take finasteride because of some really nasty side effects. By the time I am old enough for an HT, though, I'm pretty sure hair multiplication or something will be readily available. Also neosil will soon be beginning phase 2 FDA trials so there are some exciting things coming around. I think people should not be closed-minded to innovation or forget about how much money, research, and effort currently is and has been going into finding effective MPB treatments.

A ton of money goes into researching cures for cancer and a whole other host of diseases.
AND
no cures.

I don't know why people have SO much faith in future pharmeucitcal technologies, escpecially within the next 5-10 years.

I don't.

Look at all the $hit they come out with and most of it doesn't work.

Of course I would like it if they came out with some magical pill to cure baldness, but I think its wishful thinking that a TON of people engage in, to say the least.

WebMD) Vitamin E hasn't proven to be good for the heart, and now a study suggests that too much vitamin E — daily doses of 400 IU or more — actually increases the risk of dying, according to new findings

ng2gb,
I agree with you. I read somewhere recently that in the 70's scientists had a goal of having a cure for cancer by 1980 and thought that was realistic.

I bet if this forum was around in, say 1995, and we took a poll and asked "do you think there will be a cure or some type of medication that will stop balding and grow back significant amounts of hair by 2008?" at least 90 percent would have said yes. They would have all been wrong. What do you think the results of that poll would be today if asked about 2020?

I for one can't believe I've been using Propecia for ten years and not one other drug has been released for hair loss in that time.

What's really scary is I think some people start on the HT journey betting that there will be some great new treatment in the next 5-10 years so they don't have to get more HTs or HTs will be much better at that time (no more scarring, full density, etc.) I'm not willing to take that chance. I think the best way to make the decision to get your first HT is to plan on the current treatments being all that will available for the next 15 years. If something amazing is discovered before then, great. It's not worth betting on.

hairloser: I agree on all points.
especially about gambling your future away with a ht NOW hoping that some "cure-all" product will come out just in time when you really need it.
a ton of the young Armani patients use this as a justification/rationale to dense pack the hell out of their foreheads...

don't understand it.


your one of the few that I have heard have been on propecia for 10 years. Can you tell us what it has done for you (i.e. age when started, loss when started, difference if any, and side effects if any)?

would greatly appreciate it since you have been on it so long and I would like to know if it completely halted an aggresive pattern for this long...

Matt

are you planning on taking Toco-8?
the price seems reasonable