Im not at all convinced by lasers. Most doctors who suggest that their patients use lasers also suggest that they use propecia and rogaine. Whos to say the results arnt from the combination of Pro and Ro. Even if lasers did help some, theres just no point it doesnt fight the underlying problem.

Even if it helps there's no point...say what??

Some would say minoxidil doesn't fight the underlying problem.

Then there are those, and there are plenty, who use things other than just minoxidil and propecia(besides a laser device, that is).

rp1979,

Yes, Hair Loss Talk has joined in our efforts to help hair loss sufferers. We have a mutual sponsorship if you will. You can find more information on it on the following thread and on our News Site.

Regarding their listing of laser treatment, notice under "purpose" it says

"Proven to thicken the appearance of hair. Save money on expensive Salon Laser Treatments"

Thicken the Appearance of Hair doesn't suggest that it regrows hair like Propecia and Minoxodil.

But straight up, I don't really like the fact that it's listed under proven treatments.

Jacob,

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you advocating laser therapy works or not? Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

You asked for photos of proof of efficacy of Propecia and Minoxodil, I provided a number of patient photos that only scratch the surface of all the evidence out there. If you want to dig up the trialist pictures, I'm sure they are out there...but it's on you to find them.

Not all of the pictures I provided show significant cosmetic improvement...but you have to admit, some of them obviously show a difference.

But this thread is about laser therapy and whether it works.

Best wishes,

Falc

Actually I think you do know what point I'm trying to make. You can't tell me you'll spend time digging up those pictures/threads but can't find and post what should be very easy to get ahold of- the trialist photo's from the FDA approval trials of Propecia and Minoxidil.

Only one thread/pic set was of somebody using just one of those products. I guess I can just post threads of those who use a laser device along with other things, including Propecia and Minoxidil.

I'd also like to refer you back to the points I've made regarding the laser devices and before/after pictures that are on those sites.


Yes I am advocating laser therapy CAN work. Check out the thread over at Hair Loss Help where studies etc are being posted, even ones where the use of lasers for the REMOVAL of hair have ended up causing regrowth etc. I'll post them here eventually I suppose.

With all respect to you Falceros....how do we know that those guys in those photos aren't using other treatments that they haven't listed, maybe even LLLT????

The fact is Second Hand photo evidence doesn't mean squat. I don't know those guys. You expect me to take the word of 'Some Guy' on an Internet chat board as fact??? How can you be sure they are telling the truth? Gosh, I hope you don't make your investment decisions based on Second hand info you read on the Yahoo Stock Boards!

What's funny is that those photos, for example, if I were to say they are all from Low Level Laser Therapy patients, Dr. Feller and all the other non-believers would find a way to DEBUNK each and every one. LOL..Oh, this guy just grew his hair longer...Oh, this guy had towel dried hair in his before photo...Oh, this guys after photo is a little darker, etc etc....LOL!!!

look jacob I dont know what your trying to complain about. You asked falceros for example pictures, you got them, now your criticizing them .Why don’t you just find them yourself.

There are a number of reasons why I am skeptical of lasers. The have been used at salons for a long time and just suddenly people notice that they might benefit hair. This would have been pointed about along time ago had they made that big of a difference. Im not interested in thickeners, im interested in re growing and maintaining. Maybe im wrong but there’s no proof yet that disproves me.

All the proof I need is growing out of the top of my head.

You want proof that it works or not, buy one or get off the sofa and build one yourself and try it.

You can read post after post after post from guys like me saying it Works, or guys like Dr. Feller saying it's Hogwash. You won't really know until you try it yourself.

INFACT: This is what I will do. I have an older prototype comb that I made (never been used). It contains 9, 650nm 5 mw lasers. I'll give it away (FREE) to any one person who is a skeptic and wants to try it. All you have to pay is the postage to get it to you. How does that sound?

true but what else are you on beside the laser?

Hey giants.

My treatment program is:

1. Dutas (Generic Avodart) 0.5mg per day.
2. Dr. Lee's minoxidil 12.5% once a day in the evenings (I mix in my own azelaic acid)
3. Every morning, I add 1 teapsoon of pure caffeine to 2 tablespoon of shampoo and leave it on for about 15 minutes.

4. Low level laser therapy every other day.

5. Workout like a mad man at the gym

6. Eat healthy / keep the stress level low

Now, ofcourse before I started low level laser therapy, i tried to cut back on the amount of minoxidil and Dutas I was taking, but I started shedding after about 2 months. So I got back on it. Then I added the laser comb I built and again I cut back on the other things and I haven't had any shed. And that was about 3 yrs ago.


Infact my hair looks great since adding the laser, more vibrant, healthy looking and the laser seems to help with gray hair....

Now, I'm a stranger to you so as I always say, you need to try it for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Yoda--- not joining this debate, but it isn't "guys like Feller" it's DR Feller, which is a large difference in a debate like this.

In any case, I am glad that your looking and feeling great.

Take Care,
J

Jacob,

I only posted those pictures because you asked for them (though I realize now you were looking for FDA trial pictures).

Ok, so you are advocating laser therapy works...that's fine. Now that I took some time to post for you - take some time to post links with the photos of LLLT for us.

Yoda,

quote:

I have an older prototype comb that I made (never been used).

So in other words, you have a financial interest in laser therapy which is why you are an advocate of it?

Ok...besides that...

Let me ask you this...how do you evaluate whether a product works or not?

For me, there are three criteria I use to evaluate a product You can see my detailed blog called: How to Evaluate Hair Loss Products which explains my method.

But yes, I do use public evidence (patient posted photos) as one criteria in order to determine if a product has any credibility.


Yoda, you said:

quote:

how do we know that those guys in those photos aren't using other treatments that they haven't listed, maybe even LLLT????

This basically implies that the photos have credibility but are saying their growth may be due to something else like LLLT.

Then you said:

quote:

My treatment program is:

1. Dutas (Generic Avodart) 0.5mg per day.
2. Dr. Lee's minoxidil 12.5% once a day in the evenings (I mix in my own azelaic acid)
3. Every morning, I add 1 teapsoon of pure caffeine to 2 tablespoon of shampoo and leave it on for about 15 minutes.
4. Low level laser therapy every other day.
5. Workout like a mad man at the gym
6. Eat healthy / keep the stress level low

Looks like a pretty decent regime!

But then you said...

quote:

All the proof I need is growing out of the top of my head.

You stated this to giants trying to prove laser therapy works!

You have contradicted yourself!

Look at your entire regime...you have included Dudasteride (stronger than finasteride) and minoxodil into your regime. How can you say that LLLT is working? You do 5 other things to treat your hair loss.

Personally I think working out like a madman is what is helping you regrow your hair

Falc

I will add one more thing...

This debate isn't about Propecia or Rogaine.

Jacob and Yoda...

Are either of you going to seriously sit here and tell me that they are not potentially effective means to fight hair loss?

If you really believe this you have lost all credibility and there is no reason to debate with either of you.

There is already TONS of proof out there that Propecia and Rogaine have some level of efficacy to fight against hair loss. The pictures I posted above wasn't even scratching the surface. But if I posted 1000 articles, links, pictures etc nobody would read them.

But this debate is whether laser therapy works or not.

LLLT is a relatively new FDA approved "treatment" even though LLLT has been around for a LONG time! I have not found any credible information to date suggesting that LLLT really works.

All I'm really asking readers to think about is...

If there is no credible proof out there - then there is no reason to believe it works.

For those who are using LLLT as a treatment for hair loss - I encourage you to document your progress with pictures (similar to the pictures I posted above)

However...those who want to try the lasercomb if you really want to...by all means...go for it! Maybe someone will be able to post patient proof that way

Falc

did you read my post thoroughly....

<<< Now, ofcourse before I started low level laser therapy, i tried to cut back on the amount of minoxidil and Dutas I was taking, but I started shedding after about 2 months. So I got back on it. Then I added the laser comb I built and again I cut back on the other things and I haven't had any shed. And that was about 3 yrs ago. >>>

After being on laser therapy, the quality of my hair improved greatly, more vibrant, thicker, even more less fall out than when i was on the other parts of my treatment alone and it even allowed me to cut back from 1.0mg of Dutas a day to only 0.5 and twice daily application of minoxidil to only once

I tried that before and got a massive shed. Not only haven't I shed this time, my hair is actually becoming thicker and fuller..... before laser therapy i was only maintaining what i had...now, I've cut my drug intake in half, added LLLT and i'm gaining hair!

NOW how can that be if i have basically cut the amount of drugs I was using in half?????

It's LLLT therapy...it works for me at least...

I'm a kindergarten teacher in japan....I like to tinker with electronics..now tell me how the heck do i have a financial interest in giving away a laser comb that I made for FREE???

avodart and minoxidil 15% are what is grwoing hairs. Maby the laser helps but the meds are doing most if not all the work

Then tell me...why have I started growing 'MORE HAIR' since I cut the amount of Meds I take in half and replaced it with LLLT????

Tell me....why did I have a massive shed when I cut my meds in half but I didn't have a massive shed when I cut my meds in half and supplemented them with LLLT?

Placebo effect right??? LMAO!

Not only is LLLT working for me, it has allowed me to save about 100BUCKS on meds a month....

great have fun with it.

Thanks giants!

My offer still stands for any skeptic who wants a FREE laser Comb, which is more powerful than the Hairmax..Absolutely NO STRINGS ATTACHED...Falceros...giants...Dr. Feller..any takers??????

quote:

Originally posted by YODA:
I'm a kindergarten teacher in japan....I like to tinker with electronics..now tell me how the heck do i have a financial interest in giving away a laser comb that I made for FREE???

That's cool. Are you an English teacher there? How do the kids understand you?!

Funny thing that you bring up Japan... I'm actually going to be stationed there (at Fukuoka, Japan) for 6 months and I'm worried about how I'm going to get all my hair loss supplies such as finasteride, rogaine, nizoral etc.. I guess I can bring some along but can you buy them in the stores there? I mean how are you getting your Dr. Lee's minox and Dutas? Are they being shipped from the US?

Oh just curious, I love tinkering with stuff too being an engineer... How did you learn how to build a lasercomb? How much did all the parts cost? Is there a site that you can go to that will teach you? I might rig one up just for the fun of it...

HEY RP1979.

I get all my drugs through the mail. No worries.

Japan Post is probably the best postal service in the world.

I have been here 14 yrs (in Osaka) and I have never missed a parcel.

Yes I am teaching English to the kids..very fun!

Give me your mail addres and I'll tell you where i get all my drugs from!

I don't think falceros likes us posting links to websites that get financial gain.

quote:

Originally posted by YODA:
HEY RP1979.

I get all my drugs through the mail. No worries.

Japan Post is probably the best postal service in the world.

I have been here 14 yrs (in Osaka) and I have never missed a parcel.

Yes I am teaching English to the kids..very fun!

Give me your mail addres and I'll tell you where i get all my drugs from!

I don't think falceros likes us posting links to websites that get financial gain.

Cool. Just sent you a PM. Thanks.

どうもありがとう


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