Im in the middle of the doldrums period and according to conventional wisdom, may expect to see growth soon.


The thousands of tiny dimples was also a shocker that they dont mention. The redness is mostly gone but the surface of my head looks rough and you can see that something was done if you are 2' away.

I have scrutinized the post op pics from other patients and I seee the tiny dimples on some of them, so I know this is not uncommon, its just not something that is advertized. If a hair follicle grows in the middle of EVERY dimple it will probably be a non-issue.

You don't believe FELLER'S argument about scarring being an issue for FUE?...Are you kidding? Have you read it?
---YET YOU BELIEVE ARMANI (!?!?!?!?!??!?!)
----who has presented ZERO evidence (!?!?!??)
Have you read Feller's account of this?
The "SCARRING" Im refferring to for FUE
is NOT the moth eaten look. The scarring is w/respect to the ability to successfully extract grafts from the donor area...
An ENTIRELY different issue than that of the "moth eaten" look...
This will effect the total amount of grafts one can successfully have...
---I wish I could find the thread that Feller explained this...FALC? CAN YOU FIND IT???
He explains the SCAR tissue for FUE is an issue for extracting more grafts and the success of extracting these grafts becomes LOWER...

NOT talking about the MOTH EATEN look here, just talking about the SUCCESS of actually obtaining more grafts......

This is no more and no less believeable than the statement that FUE produces lower yield -- without evidence to support it. We see several good FUE results but are quick to claim that they are abnormal. One physician (with how much of a sample size?) is claiming that yield gets worse with further extraction down the road. Thats not evidence IMO. Not saying its not true, but the verdict is out on that one. Keep in mind you can venture farther towards the edges of the safe zone with FUE, so perhaps its a wash.

I'm not an Armani Cheerleader and I have some ethical issues with his practice, but I belive the negativity towards him has taken on a life of its own and at least partly reflects a desire to maintain the status quo.

Good luck in your research.

Below is the thread in which Feller's transparency regarding the limitations of FUE when compared to strip is *very* clear, and has persuaded me that MOST patients would be better served w/strip:
http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...861/m/3701081643/p/2

On pg2 Feller states the following:
""Trauma" is another confusing term when applied to FUE, but yes, a larger area of skin will be traumatized and forced to reorganize itself after an FUE "insult". When you tally up the total surface of area of skin affected by the two procedures, FUE will total 10 times as much "trauma" as a comparable sized strip surgery. While this is not so much of a problem at the time of the FUE, it becomes a considerable issue only a few months after the fact because the skin will tend to harden due to the deposition of scar tissue around each hole. When these rings of scar tissue fan out, they ultimately coalese together to form a "sheet of scaring". Further FUE in skin like this is very difficult and the number of successful attempts drops.

In other words, the fewer times you have to cut the skin, the better. This axiom serves the whole of the surgical field, not just FUE. It's also common sense.

I agree that it is best to "strip" out a patient before moving to FUE."
---Dr. Feller

It's pretty clear that the "scarring" he is referring to is not the "moth eaten" look...
So it's really not about viewing THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA FROM SPACE....

I hope your ht turns out GREAT Emperor!
We will have to agree to disagree regarding FUE though!

HT55,

I dont think you have had a HT.

That guy does not have to deal with a wide (red) strip scar or shock loss. He could buzz everything down to a #2 if he wanted and it would look natural (with the exception of the hairline which looks too low to me.)

Week for week, his growth is better than mine so far. I think he is growing well for 4 months!


I went with strip because of Drs reputation, his results, and the cost of FUE is prohibitive. I did not anticipate having to contend with a scar or shock loss. Like I said, we'll just have to see how things turn out. I'm sceptical but I also know Im in the doldrums so im not completely objective at this point.

Good discussion.

The debate over FUE will continue for some time until some time until (and if) it starts becoming more commonplace.

I do agree that there is more hype about FUE megasessions and phenominal hair growth yield than actual results posted online.

In addition, the majority of reputable hair transplant physicians agree that follicle transection rate is higher due to the extra pulling, twisting, and squeezing forces put on the grafts at extraction.

It should also be noted (and I think that this is often NOT considered or discussed among potential patients) that more grafts are often extracted then transplanted. If a physician takes the time to examine each extracted graft under a microscrope after extraction, it might be found that the graft is damaged before placement. Perhaps that will increase the over all hair growth yield of the transplanted hairs but NOT overall. Valuable grafts are still wasted if they are extracted damaged and not transplanted.

But until I see more evidence of consistent quality with FUE megasessions, I will remain skeptical.

Falc

Ah, yes. The debate shall continue for some time until some time until (and if) starts of time continue and this until some time and then it starts until this (again) some time...

I'd just like to know what candidates Armani & Co. *don't* perform FUE-megas on....or, what *revolutionary* tool he has created which has completely evaded the minds -- and ears -- of brilliant hair surgeons everywhere.....most of whom represent the antithesis of the "status quo"....

And if the latter is true, I'd like to know why such a man and such an operation can't create a website that showcases the work that they do, and why they stumble ad nauseum in posting clear, grown out pictures....

Personally, I demand precise answers to the aformentioned before I risk my precious follicles, time, and money; ethics surrounding him densepacking kids is really the least of my concerns (whether that is sympotmatic is another issue....).

quote:

Personally, I demand precise answers to the aformentioned before I risk my precious follicles, time, and money

I couldn't agree more. A clinic should fully disclose to their patients their techniques, practices, tools, all potential benefits, risks, etc. to their patients about any given procedure.

Transparency is key which is what makes this community so vital.

Falc

quote:

Originally posted by HT55:

I have had 3 HT's over the past 10 years, 2K grafts total. I can shave my Trico to a #2 without it being noticed. At the moment I could use about 750 in my hairline.

I thought we were talking about mega sessions. I've got over 2x as many grafts as you in one session, but probably because I am older and more advanced NW. Consider that the process of having 4000 grafts moved at once is a bit more arduous than having 700 moved.

quote:

Just because you have had a bad HT (so far) don't try to say I don't know what I'm talking about or haven't been through this several times.

I dont see a connection between my being in the doldrums and disagreeing with you. I did not say my HT was bad, I have expressed some concerns about it and am waiting to reserve judgement. The reason I posted in this thread was because while FUE may not be suitable for everyone, it would have eliminated the doldrums I am experiencing, specifically shock loss on the sides and a red scar -- together which require me to have my hair much longer on the sides. I do not think the doctor did anything wrong and there is evidence tat this does not happen to many people, its just that I did not anticipate this. Other people researching the process may not anticipate it either.

quote:

You talked about doldrums not being there with FUE and I pointed you to a guy who will be going through doldrums until at least month 6 if he is LUCKY.

He can buzz his head and nothing will be visible in the donor site. I agree his hairline looks odd relative to his native hair, but thats another issue that could also be solved by shaving down until everything grows out. I wish him the best even though he chose FUE. I think a low hairline like that demands higher density.

quote:

If you look at his pre op pic I would say he definitely has shock loss since he has less hair 4 months post op than Before surgery.

I'm talking about shock in the donor. Donor shock loss is a double whammy. Youve got a healing strip scar to cover and because the hair around it is missing, there is nothing to cover it with. I am not aware of any FUE cases causing donor shock, or if it does it is so spread out that its not noticable. Besides there is no linear scar to hide.

quote:

If you chose strip over FUE because of money you obviously were not ready to play the HT game !

I would still make the same decision today. I disqualified FUE because of the "yield question". If I had really dnoe my research I would have gotten a FOX test to at least see if it was an option. If I was FOX favorable and knew I was going to have to contend with donor shock, I might have given FUE consideration. FUE would probably not have made sense for me because I am an older NW5. However, I am revising my belief about its applicabilty in younger patients who are not progressesd and whose family history is favorable. My point is that even if FUE's yield is 20% less, this may be a non-issue if young patients are having small sessions to stay ahead of loss. Ive seen these young guys who have their hairlines bolstered, and they are out in public living their lives 3 weeks after the surgery without a hat.

quote:

Also the guy in the pic got his FUE with an Armani associte Dr Mcmillan for ~ $5 graft so he paid about the same as you did for strip.

I'm pretty sure you havent seen my checkbook nor do you know the doctor I chose.

quote:

Good luck in your growing.

Thank you.

Hey guys, I'm new here, but have been researching these sites for over a year and a half. I decided to join and post after reading this thread.

I'm not sure why Armani's people don't post their FUE pics for everyone to see. While I was researching with them they supplied me several examples of grown out FUE results. I will post the ones I have below so you guys can see them.

After a year and a half of research, I decided to go with Armani for my HT and had it done early last month. I received 4,181 grafts via FUE in Beverly Hills, and it took about 13 hours. (Those hours sucked too, but it's kind of like child birth I think, after a few days you forget how bad it was) 4000 sounded like a lot to me to after the initial consultation, so I did consultations with Hasson $ Wong as well, and they recommended 3800.

I did have a little bit of shockloss in the recipient area; I would estimate around 10%, but nothing too bad. The donor area healed quite well and was almost impossible to see after 2 weeks. I returned to work 3 weeks after surgery and no one has noticed anything. Once I came back, I began using a little bit of cover up makeup to hide the obvious new hairline that the residual redness left. Everyone assumed that I had gotten a little bit of a sunburn on my LA "vacation".

I only felt comfortable going through with the operation because of my response to meds, and even then, it took a lot of research to be sure. I have been on meds for 3 years solid now and have been an excellent responder, especially to rogaine. My mom and coworkers began asking me what I was doing to my hair after 2 1/2 weeks of use of rogaine. Within 3 or 4 months, my hair had almost tripled in thickness, and my hairline moved back down closer to it's originaly location. I have even noticed new hairs popping up in my hairline as recently as the last few months. If it hadn't been for this good response, I don't think I would have gone through with the procedure.

Anyways, here are some of the pics I was sent prior to my procedure:

2500-FUE-grafts-(PA)[1].jpg (40 Kb, 173 downloads) 2500 FUE

Here's another..

2500-FUE-grafts-(PB)[1].jpg (32 Kb, 112 downloads) 2500 FUE

Another..

FUE-2000-grafts[1].jpg (25 Kb, 102 downloads) 2000 FUE

This guy has his own website, had some previous work but ended up doing 3K FUE with Armani over a year ago.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/galleryview.cfm?id=gac201|gallery1.cfm


This guy had 2500 FUE and is an Armani Rep. Pics are kind of dark, but I think he says he will email bigger pics upon request.

http://fue2500.blogspot.com/


This kid had 2500 FUE performed. I post a few of his pics in the post above, but this is his full website with several pics.

http://quest4hair.blogspot.com/

I think I knew of some other Armani FUE pic websites and will post them here if I can find them.

Sean,
EDIT-----
Thanks for sharing the pics. I think what *all* of us are really after though are the MEGA FUE pics. We are all well aware of Armani's smaller session sizes. I know your not responsible for the quality of the pictures, but I gotta say two of those links have some of the shittiest quality (lighting) of ht pics I have ever seen.

I don't know why the guy w/the 3K is literally *in the dark* on his 14 month photo (?). The guy below him is even worse! I love the one pic where he says he was "trying to improve the lighting;" what was he using a fucking candle?

I would have to say that if I were going to go to *any* doc, I would want to see a bunch of clear shots of previous patients who had at least as many grafts that they were planning on moving on me; especially w/something as controversial as Armani's Mega FUE..

Didn't Armani send you *any* pics of patients who had at *least* 4K, or even better yet at least 5K? If you have any Im sure we would all love to see them...

BTW----are you associated w/AdamAlvi or something, as I noticed you are both logged on here at the same time, and the *timing* is great because we all just happened to be discussing precisely this *very* same thing on another thread!

No, not associated with AdamAlvi or Alvi Armani. Although, I probably could have saved a lot of money on my procedure if I had been. lol. Yeah, I know the pics that I was given weren't all of the best quality, as it appears that those guys are taking their own photos at home. I too wonder why some people take photos in lighting that is not only less than desirable, but often makes it impossible to see anything.

The pics of the one guy who posted his results at quest4hair.blogspot are the ones that really helped me make my final decision. His pics are pretty clear for having taken them himself. I knew from the dozens upon dozens of cases I had already seen from Armani's Strip cases that he is one of the most artistic surgeons when it comes to placement, and that doesn't change regardless if he does FUE or Strip, placement is done the same. The question comes down to survivability of the FUE grafts compared to Strip grafts.

I didn't have a huge amount of FUE pics to go on to make my decision, but I knew I would not ever be happy with a Strip scar as I keep my hair way to short. Also, if for some reason in the future I indeed have more progression and decide I don't want to chase my hair anymore, I can still shave my hair with no visible scarring.

Based on what I had read about Armani over-quoting graft count, I was very worried about the 4000 grafts that Armani said I needed, because it sounded excessive to me. So I had consults with two other docs prior to moving forward, and both of them suggested a very similar amount in my case (Hasson & Wong suggested 3800). That kind of put my mind at ease as far as the graft count.

I'm planning on taking some "good" photos once I get to 3 and 4 months post-op. I don't have a super expensive camera or anything, but hopefully I can get good enough shots to help someone else out with their decision. Hopefully my results turn out well..

Oh, I fogot to add.. I did question Dr Armani himself about the survival rates of his large FUE cases. He told me they are averaging between 90% and 95% survival rates. I'll let you know in about 8 to 10 months how accurate that is. :-)

Sean,

cool! That will be excellent because we don't have any of Armani's patients posting over on this forum. Where did you do your research on Armani? This site or another?

Sean,

All patient members are welcome here to share their hair transplant experiences and photos. I hope that you'll take the time to create a photo album and share your before and progressive pictures so we can follow your progress. Please only start a photo album if you intend to follow all the way through.

Best wishes in restoring your hair,

Falc