I was considering getting my transplant here..I have talked to patients that have been there and seen there photos.. The price can't be beat..I feel its worth flying to Tulsa, Oklahoma. Have any of you had expeeriences or know someone that has with this center? What do you think about the follicle placement holes being done with a needle rather than a tiny scapel? Have you heard that all that directional implants are overated..cause your hair will be trained in direction when you style your hair anyway?

It appears that this clinic is using Follicular Unit transplantation. That is good. There are a couple of statements on the website that concern me. The Dr. says " This surgery takes about 4 hours depending on how many grafts you want and will forever solve your hair loss problem." That is blatant deception. I would be concerned about a doctor who makes this statement. Also, he shows a chart with his per graft cost compared to the average. He shows an average of $8 per graft. That is no where near the average. Most top HT doctors charge about $4 per graft and less with larger procedures. I am also not particularly impressed with his patient photos. They are generally receiving very small procedures when they obviously need many more grafts. This leaves them with a very thin look.

I also didn't see anything about using microscopic equipment to disect the grafts. Maybe he does, but I didn't see it.

Lon, you need to tread carefully here. Graft angulation and orientation is one of the primary aspects seperating the great from the good from the bad. Whatever you may have been told, the size of the incision still must be the correct size for grafts to fit properly, regardless of instrumentation. You still need .7, .8, .9mm, incisions for ultra-refined grafts, and the only way to control angulation and orientation is using blades. Lateral, coronal, and saggittal incisions are imperative to creating density and the ILLUSION of density. Yes, hair will eventually style itself a certain way, but if the hair is exiting the scalp unnaturally, it will still look terrible and obvious. You need to do a ton of research and really focus on what some of the best clinics are doing and why. The ONLY way a clinic can advertise and do hairtransplantation at cut rate pricing is to use outdated techniques and schedule several patients a day. Either way, you lose. If you would like, I can call this place and see if they will talk to me about their practices and procedures. Most of these clinics put me on hold, hang-up on me, or tell me to F-off.
BTW, even if a clinic does good work, scheduling 5 or 6 sessions of 800 to 1000 grafts is STILL outdated.
I hope this dissuades you from continuing looking for these types of clinics. The whole purpose of this community is to help patients like yourself find solid, reputable surgeons, who will not ADD to your misery. The doctors in the Coalition welcome in-depth questions and educated patients because they know they do good work, and it makes their job easier.
Please, Please, Please, do yourself a favor and spend some time doing some research. PM me if you like.

I think if you are starting to shop for your doc, price should not be the first factor. I think you find the best doctor for your needs then decide if you can afford there services, otherwise I wouldnt do it. I think in some aspects of life price shopping is fine, but not for cosmetic surgery. good luck

quote:

Originally posted by the B spot:You still need .7, .8, .9mm, incisions for ultra-refined grafts, and the only way to control angulation and orientation is using blades.

This part of your post isn't quite true. The Limmers (Coalition surgeons btw) among other top docs use needles.

I talked with Limmer and many more and they said that alot of these places make a big deal about angle and direction..and its a sales pitch to make you think they do something extra..and its not that big of a deal..You are right that he does use needles and says he has good results without focusing too much on direction and angle. I appreciate the feedback you guys are giving.I like to hear different sides to an issue. I have just been doin alot of research and it seems alot of doctors warn of the doctors that charge so much..because a hair transplant really isn't that hard or complicated...and unless you are rich..price is a substancial factor..for most.

quote:

Originally posted by Lon:
I talked with Limmer and many more and they said that alot of these places make a big deal about angle and direction..and its a sales pitch to make you think they do something extra..and its not that big of a deal..You are right that he does use needles and says he has good results without focusing too much on direction and angle. I appreciate the feedback you guys are giving.I like to hear different sides to an issue. I have just been doin alot of research and it seems alot of doctors warn of the doctors that charge so much..because a hair transplant really isn't that hard or complicated...and unless you are rich..price is a substancial factor..for most.

What you're paying for when you go to a place like H&W is a team of 2-3 techs working on implanting, and another 3-4 disecting. You pay for a doctor who's done thousands of surgeries and more importantly, you pay for the potential to have 1 hair transplant versus going in every year for multiple surgeries. H&W have done surgeries of upto 7000 FU's in a day (if you have the laxity).

If it was upto me personally, I wouldn't exchange a scar to have an extreme sparse look.

The doctor definitely sounds like he's one of the good guys. He isn't bs-ing people and credit must be given where credit is due. However, I firmly believe that he is very wrong on angulation, and furthermore I'm somewhat unimpressed by clinics who do not step up to the plate and increase the capacity of their procedures to offer patients more grafts.

2000 grafts these days is what many would consider to be the absolute minimum for someone to consider a strip surgery. If I was relatively mature and had a low chance of losing more hair, I'd go with FUE if I didn't need a large number of grafts.

quote:

Originally posted by Lon:
I talked with Limmer and many more and they said that alot of these places make a big deal about angle and direction..and its a sales pitch to make you think they do something extra..and its not that big of a deal..You are right that he does use needles and says he has good results without focusing too much on direction and angle.

I wonder about this - is it possible there was a different context to Limmer's comment about angle and direction? Reason being, as I see it, angle and direction are extremely important. One of the main premises about transplantation is that you can accomplish a lot with a little, i.e. a relatively small number of grafts can produce the illusion of a lot more grafts. The way to accomplish that is to ensure that angle, direction (and spacing between grafts, depending on the area of the head you're working on, the waviness/coarsness of the hair, and the number of multi-haired grafts) are all correct.

Unless he meant that there's a point after which there is diminishing returns and that the incremental effect won't be noticed by anyone.

Anyway, my only point was to just highlight that the instruments are less important than the skill and dedication of the surgical team. The statement that "only blades" can produce superior results is simply not true.

Lon, Are you referring to the "lateral slit" technique when you say "directional implants"? It is true, some doctors will dissagree on whether exclusive lateral slit should be used. Others live by it. Regardless, it is imperative that each hair be placed in a direction that looks natural and matches the direction of your existing hair. That is the only way you will get a "natural" looking transplant. And that's what we all want isn't it.

Now back to the cost issue: What level of hairloss do you have? Most people will probably need more than 2000 grafts to be happy. At over 2000 grafts you can get the price down to about $3.50 per graft with a top doctor. A transplant last for a lifetime, good or bad. Is it really worth the risk?

I'm about a norwood 1 or 2. .
Posted May 06, 2006 11:49 AM
Lon, Are you referring to the "lateral slit" technique when you say "directional implants"? It is true, some doctors will dissagree on whether exclusive lateral slit should be used. Yes that or the tri slit or any other. also, some doctors claim you do less damage to hair follicles,vessels, and blood flow if you use needles intead of slits. It takes more skill to use a needle but if u have a good experienced tech doin it..you are better off. I was reading at the hairtransplantcenter that the techs are very experienced. I'm still doing research and learning but you guys have given me alot to think about before decide to go to Oklahoma..

I'm also considering Dr Samuel Lam from Dallas and Bobby Limmer from San Antonio..Has anyone heard of these?

Ok, I think that clarifies the directional implant thing. If you are just a NW-1 or 2 then you are probably looking to fill in the hairline and temple areas right? Kind of like Dhuge? Keep in mind that temple areas require special skill and the lateral slit technique to get the proper angle.

Dr. Limmer in San Antonio is very good.

I understand that dr Limmer only does micro units(too look more natural) and that patients don't really get a thick look..

Spoon, I would like to get some more information on this. It is my understanding that using needles to make recipient sites is inferior to the incisions made by blades. If indeed needles are superior, or produce the same results, I wonder why Dr.'s such as Shapiro, Hasson, Wong, (among a few others) do not employ them? I completely understand the concept that making an incision behind the hairline with a needle for a 2,3, or 4 hair graft should produce the same effect as a bladed incision, but why are the doctors generally regarded as the best surgeons swearing by the lateral slit in the frontal region, especially the hairline? In sifting through the material on graft placement and angulation, the main point is to ensure that each hair exists the scalp in a natural way or angle, without appearing unnatural. Of course this may come down to what instrumentation the surgeon feels comfortable with, or has been taught. I think I will do some more research on this in order to clear up any misinformation I or anyone else may be suffering under. I repost when I have some new info.

If by micro-units you mean follicular units, that is the only transplant you should be getting. I'm sensing that you have been misinformed here Lon. Please take some time and read about most advanced techniques.

If you are thinking about anything other than follicular unit transplantation, please take your time and do some more research. Good density can be achieved with the latest advanced techniques. Many today are repairing non-follicular unit transplantation that will leave you with a pluggy look. Keep in mind that your native hair will most likely continue to thin, which will leave any 5 or more hair plugs sticking out like a sore thumb. That is 20 year old technology.

Just thought I would keep everyone updated here.... Called twice to the clinic in Oklahoma today, stated my intentions, and have not been able to get anyone on the phone. I left my name and number for them to get back to me. I will try again tomorrow and see if anyone is available to discuss the methods they employ, and the philosophy they subscribe to. I highly doubt I will get much of an answer here, though. Most of these places like their patients ignorant, scared, and easy to sway with a greasy smile. Who knows, maybe I will be surprised here....

B-

I love it! You're like a Pit Bull on these people (I say this admirably). Hold their feet to the fire and let everyone know the results.

quote:

If by micro-units you mean follicular units, that is the only transplant you should be getting. I'm sensing that you have been misinformed here Lon. Please take some time and read about most advanced techniques.

Thanks for the web link Gorpy, it was very informative...and no doubt the best method..But speaking as a poor man who pays alotta child support, It takes a lot more single unit grafts to get the density look of strategically placed micro and mini grafts..even later when my hair starts to thin,I could go back again with mini and micro units..I have seen quite a jobs done with the combo of micro and mini..and it looks good to me..I wish I could afford the very best..

If your are looking at Oklahoma, have you looked at Lehr? I had strip with him 2-1-06. It is still too early for me to see results. I am not recommending him NOR against him. I will wait for my results before I do that. He does not use blades nor Trico, so perhaps you may want to look at another doc, but I think my results are going to be great.