Hi,
I am 32 years old with hair loss that started at age 20. I have visited two doctors with high reviews - Dr. Epstein in Miami and Dr. Griffin in Atlanta, GA. I live in Atlanta, GA.

I was very happy with both Doctors. I would pick any of the two for the procedure. I am currently leaning towards Dr. Griffin simply because he is located in Atlanta.

I have a question about the quotes I received to ensure I am comparing apples to apples. Both doctors use Strip method and perform Follicular Unit Transplants.

Epstein quoted me $$ for 2,400 to 2,500 grafts.

Griffin quoted me for $$ for 1,300 "Follicular Units" which he stated is equivalent to about 2,600 (or more) "Follicles".

The price quotes for both were very close. My questions are:

With Epstein, do I get 2,500 incisions? Does Epstein cut multi hair follicles into smaller sections to insert 1 hair at a time? Or does this really mean I will get about 1,300 incisions resulting in 2,500 hairs just like Dr. Griffin quote me?

Dr. Griffin stated he does not like to break up a multi hair follicle. He likes to keep them together to not disturb the genetic composition of the follicle. Is this recommended?

Please advice if the procedures they have quoted me are about the same. Your help is appreciated.

I am looking to pick the doctor this week.

Regards
MGM

That is a very large discrepancy, first of all; I'd also note that there seems to be an influx recently of threads regarding drastically different graft quotes, and that Griffin was inolved in one (maybe two) of them.

Anyways, with Epstein you would be receiving ~2500 grafts -- that is, 2500 slits, containing mostly 1, 2, 3 hairs (single units would be geared more towards the hairline); w/ Griffin, you would receive 1300 grafts, if I read your post correctly. Assuming both Griffin and Epstein would be operating on the same area, which is pretty safe to say, I would guess the total hair counts would be proportionately similiar -- of course, given Epstein would be utilizing a substantially larger # of grafts, I would also make the safe assumption that you would receive a substantially larger amount of hairs.

Not seeing any pics of your hairloss, I won't say which graft quote I think is more appropriate for you, but I'd encourage you to post various, clear pictures if you can.

I just had a procedure done with Dr. Epstein great doctor,but I dont know to much about griffin. I was supposed to get about 2300 to 2400 grafts from my 1st ht, he pulled out 2953 grafts witch contained 1 folicles, 2 folicles, 3 folicles and 4 folicles in a graft. I ended up getting 2953 grafts,not hairs witch contained far above. Dr.Epstein uses the 1 folicles on your very front so that this will be a natural looking hairline, tHen he places the 2,3,4 graftsin the other areas. I am actually waiting and just asked him for my hair count,not grafts,since I know my grafts where 2953. So my haircount is going to be much higher.Remember the doc does not know what number folicles are going to come out of your donor area,until they get into the techs hand for counts. He was great and gave me alot of free grafts because my donor area was a jackpot. Each person is different in donor area.

Good advice and I agree with my HT brothers. the average FU conains about 2.2 hairs.

So Dr Epstein: 2500 grafts x 2.2 hairs per graft = 5500 hairs total

Dr. Griffin: 1300 grafs x 2.2 hairs per graft = 2860 hairs total

Thanks for the prompt reply. I have just taken 3 pictures to show you. I think I am a 3V to 4 on the scale.

Epstein quoted me 2400 to 2500 grafts for $8,400 (he said that would be on the high end since 2200 would also be fine).

Griffin quoted me 1,300 FU equivalent to 2,600+ follicles for $8,500.

Based on your comments, I would get a lot more hairs with Epstein ($3.36 per graft). I wonder if Griffin is really quoting at $6.54 per graft or I am missing something.

Pictures are attached. Thx
http://mariomontag.blogspot.com/

mgm1.JPG (77 Kb, 77 downloads)

IMO, having now seen your pics, Epstein 100%, and I would say that even if the prices were reversed! I will say, this is another Griffin quote that has left me scratching my head...

I tell you, I live about 45 minutes from Dr. Griffin and if I were him I would change my price structure because it is at the best, confusing, and at the worst, much higher than the others.

If you'll type in his name, you'll read my experience which is similar.

I don't understand this...
From my understanding, most docs give you a graft estimate as to what they feel would be appropriate to meet your needs/over all situation;
no doc will be able to tell you how many particular follicular bundles (i.e. 1's, 2's, 3's) will be in your strip until it has been excised.
I understand that on AVERAGE they are 2-2.5 in units, but that really doesn't account for the discrepancy between the two reccomendations (Ep's is almost DOUBLE to Grf's)?
I would assume Epstein would be going off of the same basic assumption that each unit is on average 2 hairs.
???
If your work is ONLY being done in the crown
then I can see why Griffin wouldn't want to subdivide the units into single's as is done in hair line work.
-BUT-
still, seems strange to me as I would assume Ep would do the same...

Go to epstein,he is generous, I was qouted 2300 to 2400 grafts for 8k and he pulled out an extra 653 and gave me them for free. I cant say that he will be that generous with others. I flew from Boston to miami and I did mine on feb 7th 2008. I also paid the man cash. So Cash worked for me. He is great and the procedure is virtually painless. I did not even know my Donor area was out,only because I did not ask questions and did not want to know when he was taking it out. tHEN HE SAID WHERE ALL DONE, ALL DONE WITH WHAT i SAID? THE DONOR IS ALL STICHED UP HE SAID. i WAS LIKE WOW

Griffin was very nice and also informed me that he goes beyond the number quoted. So 1300 would turn out to be about 1400 or so.
He estimated I needed 1000 in front + 400 on top + 300 in the crown = 1700 FU. That would cost me $10,000 which is out of my range. That is why he suggested 1300. Sorry if this added confusion.

I will re-iterate that both doctor visits were very professional. Thx.

Gator Mario- Your thread was brought to my attention this evening, and I feel it worthwhile to add to the conversation- not with the intention of "selling" myself, but better, to help educate you and the other posters. I respect Dr. Griffin as well as many of the other doctors on this site, but want to explain why I feel my approach is indicated and what goes into my grafts.
Follicular unit grafts is what I use- my team of 15 full time assistants dissect down every one of the grafts into pure follicular units- which on average contain 2.2 hairs, but this can vary from 1.4 to as high as 2.6 hairs per graft. I DO NOT divide follicular units to artificially elevate graft counts- this is, unfortunately, done by some less reputable clinics, and unfortunately does nothing but disappoint patients ("You mean that I had 4,000 grafts and I look this thin?).
In the crown region, in any individual with hair that is not blonde or salt and pepper and/or quite curly, it is essential that only pure follicular units are used to achieve a natural appearance- occasionally I will combine two 1-hair grafts into a single recipient site. From your photos, it is clear GM that you have a moderate amount of thinning- and to transplant just 1300 grafts simply will not provide you with enough coverage, in my opinion.

I hope that helps. Please feel free, any of you, to ask further questions, either on this post or directly to my email jsemd@foundhair.com.

Sincerely,
Jeff Epstein, MD, FACS
Miami and NYC
www.foundhair.com

quote:

Originally posted by Gator_Mario:
Griffin was very nice and also informed me that he goes beyond the number quoted. So 1300 would turn out to be about 1400 or so.
He estimated I needed 1000 in front + 400 on top + 300 in the crown = 1700 FU. That would cost me $10,000 which is out of my range. That is why he suggested 1300. Sorry if this added confusion.

I will re-iterate that both doctor visits were very professional. Thx.

I agree with you, Gator. I'm north of Atlanta up I75 and I got confused in the beginning by all of this as well. I felt Dr. Griffin was professional as well. But they seem to use a different lingo than all or most other clinics.

But, from what I could tell he was more expensive than a couple others when I got it to apples to apples comparisons.

Now, he might always go over I don't know. But I do know two other world class doctors within 300 miles of Atlanta were about 30 - 50% less expensive, from the way I calculated it.

And another thing, if I hadn't already sent in a $500 deposit I'd consider Dr. Epstein as well based on the pics posted on this site; so I'd definitely take my time.

Some other good ones close to Atlanta that I found are Dr. Cooley in Charlotte, Dr. Charles in Boca Raton, and Dr. Fisher in Nashville.

Hi

I would not let money decide who you go with. Which doctor do you feel more comfortable with? Which doc's patients do you like better? Which has had better reviews from your research.

It seems the pricing issue is not very different so I would surely go with who you felt better about.

gator, you are breaking two of the most important rules when considering an HT: you are letting cost and travel determine who/where you go.

if i were you i'd consult with some other docs like H&W, Feller, Shapiro, Rahal. Yes, you may have to travel, but most of these docs will pay part of the travel expense/lodging. regarding cost, just wait a bit longer for the HT and save some more. if you can save $8k surely you could save $10k.

imo, both of these docs have quoted you on the low side graft-wise. your area of thinning in the crown alone looks like it would require at least 2500-3k grafts. the crown, known as the "blackhole" can consume a lot of grafs.

do not rush into anything and do some more consults, online if need be. good luck.

There is a very FINE LINE that must be walked when treating the crown---- you cannot treat the crown like your frontal and midscalp regions.

Many balding men (like myself) will find it difficult to ever be able to have enough grafts to even touch the crown.....so you cannot simply attack this area.

I believe Dr. Epstien is finding a balance between the patient needs for today and looking to his future loss.

1300 grafts would be an improvement, and there is absolutely no problem with Dr. Griffin quoting that graft total b/c he is using a solid number that will not hurt the patient long-term and will allow the patient to decide if he wants a little more down the road.

I understand and believe in limiting the number of sessions a patient must endure, but in this case there is no harm in recommending a low number of grafts (IMHO) ---rather see this then recommending too many.

Pricing and willingness to pay a particular doctors cost is a personal choice, so that is not as much of an issue. If your choosing between two great docs and all things are equal, that is when price should matter b/c at that time you can determine the total "value" you "the patient" are gaining.

Take Care,
Jason

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hairthere:
gator, you are breaking two of the most important rules when considering an HT: you are letting cost and travel determine who/where you go.



Hairthere,

I think that cost is a factor and should be. There are many reasonably priced coalition doctors. I am not for any candidate going
into it without any regard for cost. Even if we could afford it, lets remember the suffering ones who cannot.

If doctors just say screw it, these guys will pay anything, prices go up and up. That will keep HT only available to the rich and then many will start travelling or going to God knows who because they see $1 a graft in Vietnam or somewhere. They go off and get a bad HT, which is worse than going bald.

Bottom line is research everything, (including price) quality, travel and let the market decide.

quote:

Originally posted by nobuzz4me:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hairthere:
gator, you are breaking two of the most important rules when considering an HT: you are letting cost and travel determine who/where you go.

Hairthere,

I think that cost is a factor and should be. There are many reasonably priced coalition doctors. I am not for any candidate going
into it without any regard for cost. Even if we could afford it, lets remember the suffering ones who cannot.

If doctors just say screw it, these guys will pay anything, prices go up and up. That will keep HT only available to the rich and then many will start travelling or going to God knows who because they see $1 a graft in Vietnam or somewhere. They go off and get a bad HT, which is worse than going bald.

Bottom line is research everything, (including price) quality, travel and let the market decide.

That's true. Alexander in Arizona said on here he charges $4 per graft, and so does Dr. Cooley. I think both pay the hotel bill, too.

Are there any docs in the world significantly better than those two?

Thank you again for the active participation. I felt the technique, reputation, and quality of Dr. Griffin and Dr. Epstein are very similar (from what I could tell and research). The final decision will likely come down to cost since I would get twice the number of hairs with Dr. Epstein. I think cost should be a factor if all else is almost equal.

Regards
Gator Mario

On the other side, my horrible doctor charged me more than feller did for far less grafts and subpar work, so sometimes cost really is irrelevant. my point, however, is that if you find a doc you love and he's a bit pricier than your 2nd choice, spend more.

My 'mini's' were like $10 each back in '91.

Adjusted for 3% inflation, that's $17.10 per graft in today's dollars! And that's fours, five, eights, etc.

Unbelievable.