Oh I see Wylie your a Konior patient . Now I know why you were out of line. Trust me I could dog Konior and Tom right now but I know hes a good plastic surgeon because my mother had a brow lift from him and also understand the 3 horrible calculations he made on my visit was probably because he was busy.

You stated in a previous thread about how Dr. Konior "hands get tired" and therefore his work in graft placement can be done by other techs.

That is simply an untrue statement, as he does the graft placement himself. He does have one other tech trained to do this in the event it becomes necessary. But only one.

Furthermore, your "opinion" is either wild enthusiasm for your doctor of choice or inaccurate statements about others you have little to no personal experience with.

As far as Grenchoff is concerned I was in correspondance with someone who chose him over Konior (she lives in Wisconsin) and she was very impressed with this doctor, who she told me had done these surgeries for over 25 years.

When you slander other physicians you should know what you are talking about, and you simply do not. It's really not any more complicated than that.

Your taking a shot at me because you have this built up anger because I said Dr Koniors "hands get tired" I dont remember exactly that ,must have been months ago,and if I did its true because EVERYBODYS hands get tired.If you think hes gonna do a 3500 graft session all by himself ,well your wrong. . The doctor and Tom told me depending on the size of the case he may or may not plant all the grafts.
Now you say I slander a doc for no reason,yet the reason you say hes worthy is because you talked to a girl that was "impressed" Did you see her results. I at least have a few things to go on. The point was I feel Shapiro and Konior are better choices. Sorry I touched a nerve about your doctor. Who has the wild enthusiasm ?

Please Grow Please,

You know I like you bro, but you are taking things a bit far.

Making a statement that you "could dog Konior and Tom right now..." is inappropriate.

If you want to share your detailed personal experience, you are welcome too, but please restrain from making derogatory remarks without sufficient evidence.

Falc

Well I wouldnt have said anything but theres been a couple of times this Wylie character takes little shots for because hes upset I said his doctor doesnt have robot hands.
At the time I was arguing that most clinics have the techs to do that. He somehow thought since Konior did the placing on him that the results would be spectacular compared to a tech which we know is not true.
Thats verified by doctors themselves saying how much better their own techs are at planting grafts then they at placing the grafts.
If I would have went to Konior I would have been basically in a worse situation then before. Ill tell you what I meant by that. My thing with Konior isnt his work because I always have said it looks good it was about a bad miscalculation that I was able to escape finding this site.
The first time I went in to see Konior after waiting over an hour and a half ,I was told to come back. I came back the second time and finally saw him. He looked at my scar felt the laxity and said well I can take out a a little of the scar a get you 400 grafts for the hairline or a new scar and probably a thousand.
Ok the reason Im glad I didnt go there is because not only would a thousand grafts not of helped much but I would of had a new scar and would have had to still have a scar reduction on one possibly two scars ,and I most definelty would have needed another procedure since frontal 1/3 need to be addressed ,not just hairline.
I went to Shapiro ended up with over double the grafts and the SAME scar in ONE surgery
Like I said its more a bad judgement call I have with Konior but it would have affected me not him if I would have agreed to that.
Having one surgery and one scar beats two surgeries and two scars for the same amount of grafts anyday.
I saw Koniors work on his computer and it looked good but about right now I would be planning another procedure and then a year later another to reduce one maybe two scars. Instead I can move on with my life and thats more important then anything.
So your damn right Wylie I do have "wild enthusiasm" as you say. I can begin living now.
Ill apologize for the "dogging " comment ,it was more for Wylie then anything else. As far as Tom hes ok. I just thought him saying that even if I paid them to remove the staples they couldnt. I geuss it would have been a slap in the face to Konior. Oh well.

PGP,

As we all know, some doctors get involved in placing the grafts and others don't. I haven't seen any evidence that a doctor placing grafts verses a tech creates a more or less of a cosmetically pleasing result.

However, I commend physicians who chose to get involved in graft placement along with the techs. I know other elite physicians, such as Dr. Keene of AZ who also get involved in graft placement.

I'm a bit unclear about what you are saying about staple removal. Are you saying that the clinic wouldn't remove your staples? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm sorry to hear that your consult with Dr. Konior didn't go as well as you would have liked. Regarding his evaluation of your situation, I cannot address however, there is plenty of evidence that Dr. Konior does first-rate work and has a number of very happy patients with life changing results.

In order to keep this conversation balanced and fair, I have contacted Dr. Konior about this thread so that he may add his 2 cents about your consultation. I trust that if he needs permission to discuss anything openly, that you will give him the necessary permission.

This conversation however, may be moot since you never did have surgery with him, but since you are seemingly unhappy with the way things went and expressed it openly, I want to give Dr. Konior the chance to respond openly.

I'm glad however, that you are happy with your hair transplant experience with Dr. Shapiro.

Falc

Oh and about Grenchoff. I feel 100% more confident sending someone to a place that we all know will take care of him. Maybe Grenchoff would but theres nothing on here ANYWHERE to back that up. There nothing wrong with going to see him because then you could compae his work with a few others . It would be the same if someone asked about a Canadian doctor who lived by Jones. I would have said the same thing and to check out H@W OR Rahal.
A couple years ago if someone asked in Arizona whos out there,I would have said I would only check out Keene. Dr Alexander had continuously posted great work time after time so now I would have no problem recommending him.
Hell Im even starting to believe in what Beverottis clinic has to offer.Why,because hes proving they are worthy.
Bottonline I dont feel comfortable even aknowledging a clinic based on a couple of photos.
I did that on my first surgery.I saw a commericial with Grizzy Adams and that cat from the Doobie brothers and decided thats who Im going to .Boy was that a mistake

PGP,

About advising a patient to see a physician who has evidence of consitent quality online, I completely agree and understand.

This is why we ask our physicians to get more involved in our community. Unfortunately, there are a number of gems that do not use the forum to showcase their work. Personally, I think this is a mistake.

Trust me when I say I have no problem with you offering your opinion based on what you know and have seen. I only have a problem with unfounded derogatory remarks as I've already addressed above.

Falc

No problem Falc.Do what you got to do I would like to know his explanation.
Like I said before ,Konior does really good work just made a bad evaluation on me that would have set me back time and money .
I would like to know his explanation.
As far as the staple removel a year ago, Im just saying that when Tom heard that I went to Shapiro instead of them I kind of felt that was the reason they told they dont have the time to do remove them . I just thought that was a little bushleague .Maybe they were busy but thats not the vibe I got especially when I called on day 2.It wasnt last minute

Well at least we agree on the most important part. The only reaon I even brought up Konior is because of Wylie.
My feelings toward Konior are the same as if some guy runs a red light and almost smashes into you but your reflexes allow you to avoid an accident. Do you drive away happy ? No you cuss his ass out and keep driving and thats what I did. Im done with this topic unless Dr Konior chimes in.

quote:

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:
I did that on my first surgery.I saw a commericial with Grizzy Adams and that cat from the Doobie brothers and decided thats who Im going to .Boy was that a mistake

You are not the only one who saw the wrong doctor, I'm a walking billboard for HT doctors who dont know what they are doing. This is something I'm now trying to fix. I'm not prone to giving out recommendations and actually nowhere in this thread did I recommend anyone.

However, if someone asked me, I would recommend Dr. Konior based on my research of him and on my personal experience with him (i.e. surgery)

That said, I think its important that you KNOW what you are talking about if disparaging anyone in the coalition. Your personal observations/experiences aside, you can't point to one patient that had substandard results.

And my own personal experience is that Dr. Konior makes very conservative estimates in how many grafts he can harvest, as he did with me, yet he exceeeded that count and didnt charge me for a good portion of the work.

I would recommend him based on my EXPERIENCE.

By the way, I had a consultation with a another coalition doctor who was exceedingly pessimistic and, in my estimation, somewhat unprofessional in his consult with me. I was very disappointed in the entire visit, yet his work looks excellent judging from patients and photos he posts, so you wont hear me saying to avoid him, as I dont have the credentials to tell someone he should be avoided. His work and his patients say otherwise. That's where I'm coming from, I'm not here to push anyones work.

Cheers.

Sorry you got screwed.
Maybe your reading too much into this.
Even with negative feelings toward Madison hair I still called him average,and with the "average" results on his site and NO patient testimonies thats actually fair.
Then I said Id stay way from him. Its my OPINION not an order.
You say not to disparge anyone without knowing what Im talikng about ,yet you did it to me.
Then you make it sound like my observation about him are based on one terrible,not substandard result. Well again your wrong I gave more then one reason . Your the one that gave ONE reason that had nothing to do with you to stick up for him.
Now you say that you dont have the credentials to tell someone a doctor should be avoid because of his work and what his patients say.
Could you please point me to Grenchoffs patients and pictures and testimonies.
I never say to avoid Konior ,why, because he has a proven track record.
I only said avoid Grenchoff because I feel there are much better choices right next door that being Shapiro and Konior.
Maybe if he had some kind of presence on here or anywhere,or maybe if he had tons of pictures or patients telling how satified they are then maybe I would have said check him out.
There nothing for me to go on except ,well nothing. Bosley and Mhr have a few nice pics up . Id rather try and send a guy to a place thats not an unknown. A place where once again the odds are in his favor.
I know dont you think I have any idea what Im talking about but every doc I ever talked to or sent pics to told me by me being a repair patient you need to go for as many grafts as your head will allow for in ONE session. Dr Feller said it H@W said it Dr Alexander said it Dr Wolf said it and so did a few others ,and of course DrShapiro did it
They all said I need between 1800 -2500 grafts .
Dr Konior was the only one that suggested a 1000 at the most .
Though this site and others I educated myself enough to know that a 1000 grafts wouldnt get me any of the coverage I desired ,and I was setting myself up for another surgery after that,plus another scar
So this right here is just a little taste of your own medicine since Im so stupid
Being a repair patient and needing max grafts ,you going to a conservative doctor and still needing more work done now tells me you did little research and really need to educate yourself about this process a little more ,not me.
I do wish you luck because I know how a bad expierence affected me. Im no savior but if I can possibly lead someone in a safe direction then call me what you want.

Dr Konior I know you say you want to respond to this and I respect that ,but I dont think Ive ever said anything about your work unless its was positive .You even said I supported you
Ive commented about my consult and have told other Illinois resident to check out Shapiro. Thats it ,happens everyday on here.I dont think
Epstein gets concerned if someone says check out Feller
This thread was about Grenchoff not you the only reason your name was brought up was because I identified Wylie. Hes your patient who ever since I said that in big sesions you have a techs that plant he has a problem with me. Yes you did do a blow lift on my mother and it looks great.
My only problem with you is what I stated on here. Nothing to do with your work. Like you said maybe we were having a bad day,but your not the one who would have had to have two sets of staples in his head opposed to one. Such a low graft estimate would have did nothing to me when I needed 2500. Everyone said that and one DID it with one scar,not two.
I appreciate your dedication to this field as you state in your pm,and to show you that I dont have a problem with your work I tell you something.
I am convinced your yield is always high and that you are a good surgeon in more then one field it was just the super low estimate that rattled me. Anyway I called Tom a week ago to possibly schedule a 200-300 graft fue session to address temple points since I needed all the stip grafts up front. He said you wouldnt do it because your a perfectionist,whatever that meant. I could control the numbers on a small fue since Im positive thats what it would take so I wasnt worried about estimates just growth.
I also told Tom to come on here and showcase your results for better business and all he said was this forum is nothing but paid clients.This can be verified by Tom himself .Ask him about it. It was about aweek ago when he was talking to me about fue when Matt from SMG called.
If I didnt trust your work would I be contacting you? If Dr Shapiro did fue I would have gone to him but I figured your good ,right next door ,it wont hurt to call.

Hmmm...

quote:

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:
Sorry you got screwed.

No problem. So am I.

Maybe your reading too much into this.

Maybe.

Even with negative feelings toward Madison hair I still called him average,and with the "average" results on his site and NO patient testimonies thats actually fair.
Then I said Id stay way from him. Its my OPINION not an order.

Okay then, thats all cool. But being as he's in the coalition and has an extensive track record, shouldnt that count for something? I dont know why he shouldnt talk with him and see if hes the right guy. He very likely may be.

Either way, I'm just trying to set the record straight from my perspective, theres likely no "wrong" answer in an argument between "who's best" amongst coalition doctors, but among "who qualified" I'd say that its a safe bet any coaltion doctor would do good work.

And when they dont they get the boot. One is suing the site. But if they are not dropped when not up to standards, who will pay in the end?

Thats why the list is a good place to start. Work on researching those on it should pretty much put an end to the suggestion "stay away from that guy" or "he's no good" or whatever the argument is against them.

Now, thats my .12.....

Its all good . One thing is Dr Grencoff is not a coaliton doctor and Im not so sure about his extensive track record. Dr Pomeratz in Hinsdale has been doing transpalnts for 25 years ,would you go to him?
I know Pat does a great job with his sorting out the good from the bad but to say all doctors will give the same result just because they are recommended on here is not true.
Unless this doctor is a secrective hidden gem the chance Balding Mike going to Shapiro or Konior and recieving equal or better result is heavily in his favor. Not saying he shouldnt be recommended but when someone asked about a doctor in the area I live in I will always point them to the doctors who have proven they can be counted on..

I suppose it’s time for me to “chime in”. I will try to keep this simple.

It is a fact that I am present in the operating room for at least 99% of a procedure, and it is more common for me to be there for 100% of the time. I have a very strong opinion about how grafts are placed and who places them. I place grafts with one person who has worked with me for 15 years now. I have never said anything about getting tired or about hand fatigue. The plain and simple fact is that I don’t fatigue, whether I am involved in a 6 hour case or a 14 hour case. I challenge anyone to identify themselves with proof that would substantiate anything to the contrary.

Some have posted their opinion regarding the placement aspect of the procedure. Comments suggest that it simply does not matter who does this. Some have said that they prefer the feel of a tech’s hands on their head over that of the physician’s hands. Others have commented that women are better at this portion of the procedure because men “can’t thread a needle”. I would have to ask these individuals, who would you want to sew in your coronary bypass graft? Who do you want performing your Lasik procedure? Many have trivialized surgical hair restoration and placed it into a category of being nothing more than a simple procedure. However, this is a surgical procedure and it is my firm opinion that nothing about it should be trivialized. Consistent excellence requires that each and every portion of this operation be performed with precision and quality.

The surgical hair restoration process requires a team. Any single flaw in an otherwise perfect team could jeopardize the final result. It is my opinion that I have a duty to my patients to be present for this delicate part of the procedure. I have witness dozens of techs in many different offices over the years. I have interviewed several “expert” techs from quality offices over the years. The fact is that very few meet the rigid requirements I have for graft insertion. I spend a tremendous part of my life looking through surgical loupes and see this part of the procedure from a perspective that a lay person could not possibly appreciate. I certainly do have respect for many technicians who are at the top of their game. There is no way we could accomplish what we do without their valuable assistance. However, any patient who has traveled a distance to be treated by me, who has made a financial sacrifice for bettering their appearance, and who has placed their ultimate confidence in me being the person who will be responsible for a life-altering event is entitled to my presence and my full attention for the entire duration of the procedure. Other docs have differing philosophies on this matter and I respect that. This is simply my belief and I stick by it without reservation.

Comments about things like refusing to remove staples are hard for me to comprehend since my office is glad to help out colleagues. I view the Coalition as a team. Most of us are friends and we support one another because we are professionals with patient satisfaction being the end goal. Many of us have patients from all corners of the country and often beyond. It is not at all uncommon for us to assist with staple and suture removal. I can only apologize if anything to the contrary was said.

With respect to recommendations, I certainly do not apologize for giving conservative estimates when they seem appropriate. Any scalp on any given day has the potential of being interpreted in different ways by different physicians. The balance of risk versus reward for a given situation is quite complicated. I tend to view “damaged” scalps with much more caution – and for good reason. It is rare for someone who truly had the misfortune of being “maimed or mutilated” from a surgical misadventure to be completely corrected in a single procedure. My experience suggests that this subset of patients tends to favor a conservative approach (not always, however). Certainly it is often technically possible to perform more grafts than are recommended during a consultation, but risks increase as the size of the strip escalates. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose – and I have hated losing since I was a kid. I do try to explain risk and reward scenarios with patients so that they realize there really is no single best answer. There are many options that can get someone to their final destination – the route to the finish line may be different however. The key here is avoiding failure at all costs.

My average consultation lasts 45-60 minutes. Many times I wonder whether a positive connection has been made or not. Face it, not everyone hits it off. Knowing that patients have a choice to go where ever they want, and knowing that part of my mission in life is to protect those who seek surgical restoration, I often tell patients this line, “If for whatever reason you do not have my confidence, please go to someone like me, another Coalition doc, someone who will treat you professionally and as in individual”. In the end, I am glad that our community colleague had the vision to go to someone who is on my very short list of physician recommendations for prospective patients.